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mithenrijsg asked what attracts me to a pairing, which is...a dangerous thing to ask, because oh boy, do I like to talk about stuff like that. I've actually turned this over a lot in my head, because there's a difference between "I like this pairing, they're good together" and "OH I CLUTCH MY HEART WHEN THEY SPEAK TOGETHER I MUST WRITE THEM FIC THIS INSTANT." I ended up with three things that tend to show up a lot together--any one or two and I ship them, but put all three together and DAMN, it's my Kryptonite.0. Oh, first, a baseline: I generally need a LOT of canon interactions between the two--or at the very least, their relationship needs to be very central to the story. I have a hard time shipping anyone who doesn't have a nice rich canon together, I'm not someone who can enjoy making up my own head canon for relationships, sometimes to my chagrin. Part of why the reboot has been hard for my Clark/Bruce muses is that at a certain level, these two (new) characters have had almost no interaction we've seen together. Yes, there's still lots of other canons out there and I can graft the pre-reboot history onto them, but at some level it feels hollow. Same for rebooted Kirk/Spock, although they're making progress there.
1. Complementary opposites. I don't tend to ship canon enemies (Batman/Joker and Sherlock/Moriarty leave me cold) but on the other hand I don't tend to ship buddies either (Ron/Harry, Pippin/Merry, Booster/Beetle, Armin/Eren from Attack on Titan are all very nice but lack the spark I need for a true OTP). What draws me in are pairs where the backgrounds, the motivations, or the personalities lead to friction, but the emotional connection transcends that friction. I love Batman/Catwoman, for example, because the playful/serious personality and selfish/altruistic motivation clash creates sparks for me. Holmes and Watson are often called "the heart and the mind" and I tend to adore pairings with an extremely intellectual person and a more gut-level (but still intelligent) person (hello there Kirk/Spock, Blake/Avon, Bruce/Clark, Illya/Napoleon, Stephen Maturin/Jack Aubrey). It especially helps if the two are complementary opposite types working together in service of a cause bigger than themselves--a ship or starship or country or organization or cause. Give me lots of passionate arguments about means and ends and goals and I'm a happy shipper.
2. Loners. I tend to love pairs in which both members are isolated and have a hard time making meaningful human connections, in part because it's such a thrill that they have each other. Everyone I've listed above fits that pretty well (Aubrey/Maturin maybe the least) and I'll just add Alan/Denny from Boston Legal while I'm at it.
I'm going to take a moment and mention that very often the "warmer" person in my OTP tends to be taken as more emotionally accessible and open and expressive than the "cooler" one--and that it's often not so at all, it's just a different way of keeping people at a distance. Jim Kirk, Clark Kent, John Watson, Bilbo Baggins are all people who seem more able to make human connections than Spock, Bruce Wayne, Sherlock Holmes, Thorin--but canonically they tend to be just as lonely and isolated, just in a different way. Kirk has plenty of flirtations, but almost never anything deep and meaningful (when it is, she dies, of course--an unfortunate theme with all these characters). Command isolates him. For all his vaunted love and affection for all, Clark Kent is shockingly low on people he lets get close to him. If I'm keeping track correctly, in the reboot only four people alive seem to know his secret identity: Diana, Lois (she just found out and I think the knowledge is temporary, but we'll see), Lana Lang--and Bruce. His alien background always lends an element of loneliness to his character--I'm not a big fan of the storylines where he mopes and broods about it, but I like it as a melancholy thread that runs under his interactions. It's the Fortress of Solitude, not the Fortress of Hanging Out With My Buddies. Bilbo Baggins lives alone of his own choice, never seems to regret it, and is something of a misanthropist in general it seems--he likes people, but on his own terms. And I'm sure theses have been written about the fact that John Watson is maybe even more unable than Sherlock Holmes to easily express emotions and connection. Everyone thinks of him as the warm and affectionate one, but nearly all of his connections (everyone at that Christmas party) are in his life because of Sherlock. Even Sholto, his commanding officer who he admires greatly, he pretty much never actually interacts with. Mary Morstan is a distinct exception (a little oddly, considering in canon he only met her because of Holmes), and she does complicate things a bit, but that's a topic for a few days from now.
Even my few het OTPs (I ship lots of het and femslash, but not many reach the passion of the m/m pairings for me) have isolation as a theme--for example, Jarod/Miss Parker from The Pretender, two very isolated and lonely individuals who, even though they're technically enemies, end up having more in common than anyone else. The femslash pairing that comes closest to an OTP for me is Huntress/Power Girl in the new continuity, and in part that's because they have that same "two outsiders against the rest of the world" dynamic (they're very like Kirk and Spock in that Karen has a lot of casual relationships and Helena stays aloof, but they're the most important thing in each others' lives beyond a doubt). "You and Me Against the World" is probably my OTP philosophy theme song.
3. Teleology. This is maybe a strange one, and one I hadn't really teased out until answering this question! Teleology is the study of endings and destinations...I've always been struck by how, considering how much I love fluffy stories, I end up so very often drawn to pairings where one member dies next to the other, and often where one member kills the other. Qui-gon's death scene with Obi-wan impressed me enough that it overcame my teacher/student squick, and that is saying something. Thorin/Bilbo, Kunzite/Zoicite from Sailor Moon, Picard/Q...all the same. Kirk/Spock and Holmes/Watson (lots more about this in the coming Sherlock post) have their own weird takes on it (and how much does it kill me that Spock wasn't there when Kirk died? SO MUCH). Denny Crane and Alan Shore in Boston Legal don't get there in canon, but they're on their way.
And then there are the OTPs where one member actually kills the other...Londo/G'Kar, Blake/Avon, Ian/Hamish, to be honest if I had a Harry Potter OTP it would probably be Dumbledore/Snape (again, overcoming my teacher/student squick). And of course Clark and Bruce manage, in alternate continuities and Elseworlds and dystopian futures, to die together AND/OR kill each other over and over again.
I think in part this is because, in some ways, I am a hardcore endgame shipper. A clinch or a wedding isn't enough for me--"till death do us part? I require proof." When characters die together or kill each other, it means that at the ultimate end, they were there for each other. They were, in the final moments, the most important things in each others' lives.
It also gives me something to save them from, through the power of my imagination. I don't usually even go for full-on AUs that rescue them from death, it's enough to write (on the screen or in my mind) the brief happy moments of connection snatched from the inevitable ending. Thorin and Bilbo are one of the few OTPs that I have ended up giving a complete pocket-universe AU, and I suspect that's because there just isn't enough time for a lot of stolen happy moments before the end. Generally it adds pleasure to the creation for me, knowing the bitter awaits and thus writing the sweet.
So give me any one of these and I'll probably find a pairing interesting. Give me any two and I'll ship it. But give me three, and watch me fall head-over-heels for it!
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-17 10:58 am (UTC)I have a hard time shipping anyone who doesn't have a nice rich canon together,
Hehe, so no Mycroft/Lestrade for you. (I felt for these shippers, still NO INTERACTION at all in the third series, correct me if I'm wrong)
Batman/Joker and Sherlock/Moriarty
well these are even a special type of enemy: batshit insane. Morally grey characters on the "dark side" are sometimes interesting to ship.
because the playful/serious personality
Yep this is very attractive to me, too. (also: Martin Crieff/Arthur Shappey my fluffiest OTP ever, though I can also see Douglas/Martin)
JACK/DOCTOR (9, but esp. 10) <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 (they tend to switch the roles a lot)
Give me lots of passionate arguments about means and ends and goals and I'm a happy shipper.
NYARGH ösdsgklajdhöl
JACK / DOCTOR
I tend to love pairs in which both members are isolated and have a hard time making meaningful human connections, in part because it's such a thrill that they have each other.
Martin Crieff/Arthur Shappey!
JACK/DOCTOR <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3
tends to be taken as more emotionally accessible and open and expressive than the "cooler" one--and that it's often not so at all, it's just a different way of keeping people at a distance.
YES.
Both Jack and the Doctor use this tactic. They are interesting in that they both have playful and serious moods but overall I'd say Jack is the more playful one in general and the Doctor the more serious one (mostly due to his age and the Time War)
It's the Fortress of Solitude, not the Fortress of Hanging Out With My Buddies.
LOL
he likes people, but on his own terms.
You know are right there. Never really thought about that. *ponders*
Qui-gon's death scene with Obi-wan impressed me enough that it overcame my teacher squick,
OMG.............you remind me of happy happy times spend in Obi-wan/Qui-gon land... *heat is rekindled* And yes, that death scene was the supernova lighting up my shipper brain.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-20 11:56 am (UTC)I actually like it quite a lot as a pairing, it just doesn't grab me at the OTP level! And I felt bad for them as well about this series...but you know, part of the fun of that pairing is making up things in the background! Like, Mycroft won't come to John and Mary's wedding because he wants to keep his relationship with Greg a secret (that's why Lestrade was looking so sad at the wedding...) :)
well these are even a special type of enemy: batshit insane. Morally grey characters on the "dark side" are sometimes interesting to ship.
Excellent point...I have a soft spot of Batman/Riddler, for example.
JACK/DOCTOR (9, but esp. 10) <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 (they tend to switch the roles a lot)
Oh gosh, is that one of those pairings where whoever is being serious, the other one is going to be all light and frivolous, and then they change roles? I LOVE THOSE KIDS OF PAIRS.
Martin Crieff/Arthur Shappey!
Yes, I could totally see this! Douglas has his wife (at least as far as I've listened) but on the whole they do seem all a rather isolated lot, don't they?
OMG.............you remind me of happy happy times spend in Obi-wan/Qui-gon land... *heat is rekindled* And yes, that death scene was the supernova lighting up my shipper brain.
Did you ever read the Young Apprentice series? It's O-W as a very young starting apprentice, and I swear the first three were SO SLASHY that it made me kind of uncomfortable (wayyyyy too young). And then suddenly they changed authors and the tone shifted quite a bit, lol...
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-20 07:17 pm (UTC)Me too there is something delicious about having two middle aged stylish gents having a lovely relationship... I don't often see them written as very angsty or very kinky which suits me fine most days... yum.
Mycroft won't come to John and Mary's wedding because he wants to keep his relationship with Greg a secret (that's why Lestrade was looking so sad at the wedding...) :)
I guess it is fun to make this stuff up. :-) That's a great reason actually, hehe.
I have a soft spot of Batman/Riddler, for example.
o_o There is Batman/Riddler fic? Of course there is Batman/Riddler fic, what was I thinking... *still poleaxed* Part of my surprise is probably because I really don't know much about Edward Nigma apart from his name. I always quite liked him, he is fun "villain".
Oh gosh, is that one of those pairings where whoever is being serious, the other one is going to be all light and frivolous, and then they change roles? I LOVE THOSE KIDS OF PAIRS.
YES COME OVER INTO THE ANGSTY HEARTLAND of Jack/Doctor goodness. It is true that Jack's usual strategy against serious business is to be flippant and laugh (and flirt - A LOT). But he tends to drop the act at important (i.e. LIFE OR DEATH) moments. I mean, you know the Doctor also has this tendency though he is more serious in general (and I love his abrupt mood changes *shivers*) and he tends to play that up and sort of berate Jack for his light-heartedness sometimes (esp. 9). You also have to consider that the Doctor influences Jack's personal development A LOT (how much new Doctor Who have you seen btw?) so Jack is a completely different person after a, ahem, slightly traumatic finale of season 1 (with Christopher Eccleston). If you ever decide to watch and want some recs after I'd be only to happy to oblige! I love these two for the potential they have (it's hard to talk about without spoilering you), I wasn't happy with what they did with them in later seasons but anyway. STILL OTP FOREVER.
Yes, I could totally see this! Douglas has his wife (at least as far as I've listened) but on the whole they do seem all a rather isolated lot, don't they?
Yes they quite are. They are such a crew of oddballs and I think Douglas is mainly isolated since he was let go from Air England. That had to have smarted and the reason probably cost him acquaintances as well as friends. Wouldn't do to be seen with someone stealing from your employer right?
Arthur and Martin are such a sweet pairing once one can bring oneself to see Arthur as a sexual being (which was a hard step for me, granted. But I have since read vampire!Arthur fic so now I can take anything the writers throw at me) Martin is such a lovely delightful little kid inside (listen to Molokai!!) and I think they'd connect very well.
the Young Apprentice series?
Wait were these those (non fanfic) books? Oh right I remember reading a couple (looked up the cover and recognized them), I quite liked them. But slashy? Mmmh don't remember that (and I was looking really hard! What I remember was Obi-Wan desperately wanting to be accepted...). Anyway, there was glorious glorious slash fanfic for Obi-Wan and Qui-gon that I remember very well.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-21 02:00 am (UTC)YES YES THIS. I really ought to add more of them to my reading list, they are fun! You know, I bet I could even write some, although I suspect the fandom has already filled in all the missing possibilities in Series 3... :)
There is Batman/Riddler fic? Of course there is Batman/Riddler fic, what was I thinking... *still poleaxed*
There is...not much at all, actually! This is very much a headcanon ship for me, lol. But oh, Eddie trying to impress Batman with his puzzles and riddles and needing to prove himself superior has a lot of possibility...
(how much new Doctor Who have you seen btw?)
The New Who I have seen can be listed very very briefly:
1. The first episode, maybe 2, of Nine.
2. The webisode where Eight regenerates into the War Doctor.
3. The Day of the Doctor special from last year.
4. Matt Smith's final episode and the one Christmas episode with the Narnia theme ("The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe.")
THAT IS IT. *sadface* My husband and I are talking seriously about hopping back on with Capaldi, though...
With the Jedi Apprentice series, oddly enough it's only slashy to me in the first three books written by a male writer, and then it stops when the writer switches to a woman. Which is just as well, since Obi-Wan is too young...but the first three books had a LOT of Qui-Gon thinking about the strange bond between them and how sudden and intense it was. There's a lovely moment where he's rejected Obi-Wan as a padawan at first, and then sees him in danger and his heart almost stops and he knows he can't deny this is his fated padawan anymore. I guess I would say not slashy in the here-and-now, but with strong overtones of "someday" to it.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-24 05:32 pm (UTC)YES! Please do! You could fill in the two years, or start after season 3 or what have you - go back to season one... the possibilities are endless because there are such huge gaps. Or pre-series 1 because Mycroft must have paid Lestrade a visit like John's when he got involved with Sherlock right? Or they worked together to get Sherlock off the drugs?
Eddie trying to impress Batman with his puzzles and riddles and needing to prove himself superior has a lot of possibility...
You are right. *ponders* This has much cuteness potential. :-)
Re: Doctor Who... oh you really must watch David Tennant as Ten - he's brilliant! And season four featured my all time favourite companion Donna Noble - you will have a fantastic ride during the season (please don't ask about the season finale though)!
Of the new stuff I have only watched Matt Smith's first season, I am taking my time with the rest. :-) Noone can replace my love for the tenth Doctor although I admit that Matt did an excellent job in season 5.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-18 06:28 pm (UTC)I have long maintained that a big part of the reason for the popularity of slash in modern female fan culture is specifically due to the dearth of interesting relationships/interactions for women. Of course, women rarely interact with other women, as the Bechdel test shows in spades, but even their interactions with men tend to revolve around men as the viewpoint character. Case in point: Uhura and Spock (and Uhura and Kirk) in the first of the new ST movies (I haven't seen the 2nd). Uhura may be a badass character, but we know almost nothing about her. Kirk and Spock are both viewpoint characters. We've gotten pieces of their pasts. We've met their mothers. (I wonder what Uhura's mother was like?) They are, as presented by the story, equals. They are both point of view characters and their relationship is fraught with energy, passion, and misunderstandings. How can Uhura, a side, non-viewpoint character who we almost never see except when she is interacting in some way with the two male characters, possibly compete?
This dynamic seems to play out over and over again across popular media: two male characters with strong personalities that clash/interact/fight/work together and have independent existences in their own right. One or both of the males is assigned a female character to be a companion/love interest - as Dini said of Cartoon Network's requirements, the women are 'not as smart as them men, one step behind the men', and more than that, they are not viewpoint characters and have little background and history to draw upon. There's no way that their relationships can compete with the powerful dynamics between the viewpoint male characters, and they end up seeming to be little more than tokens that the creators can point to and say, "See? He's not gay. He has a girlfriend!"
Sorry to sidetrack your post; this is something I've been thinking about for awhile and want to write more about. Thanks for letting me get some of my thoughts in order in your space. :)
BTW, on a separate note, I was thinking about Heroes of the Squared Circle this morning. I'm really looking forward to seeing "The Kryptonian", especially if he ends up fighting Batman. I'm curious to see in the persona of Superman will ultimately tie together the characters of Country Clark and The Kryptonian. That would be really neat. :)
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-21 01:43 am (UTC)Also, the next chapter of "Heroes" is written and ready to post when I get caught up on things--no later than Saturday, though! *crosses fingers*
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-19 05:47 am (UTC)As for Captain Aubrey, he has the same issue as Cpt Kirk, being isolated by command, but even more so, because in Aubrey's day Kirk's method of socializing casually with his officers and seeking their advice/input was strongly discouraged, if not outright forbidden. Aubrey only remained the warm human creature he is through his extraordinary friendship with Stephen. Most Naval captains ended up like Hornblower at least, or worse.
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-21 01:46 am (UTC)Most Naval captains ended up like Hornblower at least, or worse.
Having read and loved Hornblower recently while simultaneously wanting to slap him hard enough to make him see stars, I definitely take your meaning!
(no subject)
Date: 2014-01-21 02:08 am (UTC)Jack on land has a pretty decent set of family and friends. Stephen is still pretty isolated. We never meet any of his birth family. He does have a godfather who makes an appearance, but it seems that since Stephen reached adulthood he doesn't see much of him.
Of course, Stephen on land usually gets absorbed into Jack's family, so he's not so very isolated :-)